Pop Culture Retrospective # 27 - Salt 'N Pepa : One of Hip Hop's most successful groups of all time!

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When you think about the individuals or groups who paved the way for hip hop and rap artists of today perhaps you think of Grandmaster Flash, the Sugarhill Gang or Run DMC.  In a male-dominated genre of music, sometimes we forget the women who were also trailblazers.  In the early 1980s, it was almost unheard of for women to be rappers, but that would all change when Salt ‘N Pepa hit the scene, paving the way for artists like Missy Elliott, Lil’ Kim, Foxy Brown and Eve.  

There was rarely a time when I traveled in a vehicle with my sister when we weren’t listening to music.  When we traveled with my Mom, we would often listen to Tina Turner, Phoebe Snow, Tracy Chapman or James Taylor.  When we traveled with my Dad, we listened to the likes of Prince, Morris Day or perhaps Tangerine Dream.  One group I distinctly remember listening to while driving around downtown Chicago, sometimes I remember really specific information, can’t remember Geometry or the specifics around the constitution, but I remember what and where I was listening to music when I was a kid, but I digress) was Salt ‘N Pepa, the charismatic, feminist and groundbreaking rap group that was wildly popular during me and my sister’s childhood and adolescence.

With that being said, on today’s show we will be discussing the backstory behind Salt ‘N Pepa, one of the most successful rap groups of all time.  The 3 women who comprise this group were true trailblazers, advocates and pop culture icons and I cannot wait to share their incredible story with you.  So put on your red leather boots, your black leotard and your gold necklace, here we go!

Hello and thank you so very much for tuning in to the Pop Culture Retrospective Podcast, a show inspired by, and in memory of, my big sister Rebecca and her love for all things pop-culture, especially the people, places and things of the 80s, 90s and early 00s.  My name is Amy Lewis and I am your captain aboard this pop culture time machine.  You are tuning in to Episode #27 - Salt ‘N Pepa, the all-female hip hop group who have made us dance, try our hand at rapping even though we are not nearly as gifted as they are and who made us look at some challenging topics with a more well-informed and open-minded lens.  

But before we get into the story of how Salt ‘N Pepa formed and subsequently became incredibly successful, let’s first discuss the early days of its members.  

Please note that there are some points of today’s show that will be touching on some more adult subjects and lyrics, especially when we get to discussing the group’s discography, specifically the Black Magic and Very Necessary albums, so please keep that in mind if you are listening to the show with some younger ears.  Back to the show though...

Salt’s real name is Cheryl James and she was born on March 8, 1964 in Brooklyn, NY.  She was the middle child of 3 children.  She was the daughter of a transit worker and banker.  Cheryl’s mother often took her to Broadway plays.  Cheryl also took singing and dance lessons as a child.  She struggled with learning how to appropriately sing, but she did eventually fall in love with hip-hop, some of that having to do with her boyfriend at the time.  

Pepa’s real name is Sandra Denton and she was born on November 9, 1969 in Kingston, Jamaica.  She was the youngest of 8 children.  She lived with her Grandmother on a farm in Jamaica until she was 6 years old.  She eventually moved to NYC to re-join her parents who had already moved there a few years earlier.  Sandy’s mother worked as a nurse.  Sandra’s childhood certainly wasn’t easy.  Her father passed away in 1983 and her mother was left alone to take care of 8 children.  She was the victim of abuse and at one point, she was sent to live with an older sister in Utah when her family’s house caught fire.  The high school she attended in Utah was primarily white, in fact she was apparently the only black student there.  Despite being the minority, some positive things came out of her time in a Utah high school, one of them being exposure to rock music.  This had a huge impact on her.  She eventually moved back to NYC and graduated from high school there.  After high school, she enrolled in college.  

Spinderella’s (the group's eventual DJ) real name is Deirdra aka “Dee Dee” Roper was born on August 3, 1970 in New York City.  She was one of 5 children.  At a young age, she was intrigued by her father’s record collection as he collected vinyl.  She grew up in the projects in NYC, she said her apartment was often the loudest.  The apartment was on the 7th floor and her dad would blast music by Grover Washington Jr or Hall & Oates.  As a teenager, she dated a young man who was a DJ and from him, she learned a lot of DJ techniques.  She grew up loving Cinderella and often wore a Cinderella watch.  One day when she was spinning records in a park, someone called her Spinderella and the name became her permanent stage name.  

Cheryl and Sandra met during their first year of school at Queensborough Community College.  They both had aspirations of working as Nurses, but didn’t quite have the work-ethic, at least academically to get there.  They apparently didn’t go to class very much, but rather hung out in the cafeteria playing card games.  When it came to their friendship, opposites certainly attract.  Cheryl was an introvert and Pepa was very much an extrovert. 

In addition to both being nursing students, both young women also worked at the call center for Sears.  For example, they would call customers to see if they were interested in getting a warranty on their washing machine.  I wonder if the script for answering phone calls went something like this- “Hi this is Amy, are you interested in seeing the softer side of Sears?” I’ll never forget that jingle.  

Cheryl’s boyfriend’s name was Hurby Azor and he was a music student in college and he wanted to produce a song.  Coincidentally, he ALSO worked at Sears.  Apparently future comedian Martin Lawrence and musician Kid from Kid ‘N Play also worked here.  

He asked Sandra (aka Pepa) if she could rap.  She had never rapped publically but she threw out a few lines and Azor could immediately tell that she was talented.    

In 1985, they recorded their first track.  Since the duo was trying to make their way into a male dominated music genre that was often focused on battles between artists.  So, they decided to hit back with their song “The Show Stoppa (is stupid fresh).”  It was a clap back to Doug E. Fresh and Slick Rick’s “The Show” which was a popular song at the time and focuses on male rappers.  Their version was sort of hitting back at how men sometimes treated women, especially when they continue to pursue a woman when she is not interested.  The song was eventually re-recorded and was sent to a radio station that played rap music on weekends.  At what point while Cheryl and Sandra were driving, the song came on the radio.  They were over the moon with excitement.  They were on the radio!  They allegedly pulled the car over and both women apparently both danced on the hood or roof of the car and shouted with excitement.  When “Showstopper” was released the group was known as Super Nature.  One of the lyrics in the song refers to salt and pepa and the names just stuck.  The Show Stoppa would go on to sell over 250,000 copies and caught the attention of local record companies.  

The duo continued to get more radio play and as that happened, the more shows they were asked to perform.  As very young women, they were balancing school, work and performing.  They just wanted to play music and have fun, that was always the goal.  

One negative side effect of their success was that other female groups tried to impersonate them.  Also, because they were trying to make headway into a male dominated industry, no one wanted to sign them to a record deal despite their natural ability for rapping and indisputable charisma.  Eventually though, they were signed to an indie record label named Next Plateau who were impressed by S & P’s talent.  It was then that the duo decided to bid farewell to Sears.

Hot, Cool and Vicious was released in 1986.  It was one of the first albums released by an all-female rap group and it was the first to reach gold and platinum status.  Gold marks 500,000 sales and Platinum marks 1 million.  

The album features several classic songs including:  Beauty and the Beat, Tramp, Chick on the Side, Showstopper and Push It.  Push It, has an interesting backstory….While at Azor’s friends (remember that Azor and Cheryl dated for several years) house, Fresh Gordon, Gordon put together the infamous synthesizer riff that would be used in the classic song, ‘Push It.’  The song was recorded in Gordon’s bathroom as the tiles helped with the sound.  The group needed to put together a B-side to their other song, ‘Tramp.’  Tramp was a song hitting back at the men who objectified women, so this time, the women would be objectifying the men.  Soon after it’s release, the song erupted and the single would go on to sell over 1 million copies and was nominated for a grammy.  The song also has a very memorable music video.  It was actually filmed live and was spontaneous in nature.  In case you don’t remember this infamous music video, Salt, Pepa and Spinderella were all clad in one piece black leotards and sported white leather jackets with red, green and yellow accents.  They also had on red, leather boots.  Apparently the jackets were designed by Play of the rap group Kid & Play.  They also rocked large, gold rope chains and asymmetric hair.  Their style was unique and it was hard to not want to be like them. In one article, it was mentioned that ‘Push It’ is allegedly often played in maternity wards.  At first, Salt and Pepa were not huge fans of the song.  They thought it was kind of cheesy.  However, they soon learned to embrace it as it became a hit.  When this song comes on, I think it’s impossible to not want to get up and dance to it.  I think a lot of people in me and my sister’s generation would agree with this or anyone who heard this song during the height of its popularity. If you’ve been listening to the show for a while, you know that I enjoy throwing my parents under the bus and oftentimes, myself.  I do, however, need to throw my wife under the bus as well.  Recently, we were listening to the song “Push It” and my wife was saying “Smoosh It” as the song played.  I paused the song and abruptly turned toward her and said with an attitude- “did you just say smoosh it?” She then cleared her throat. “Yes, I did” she said.  Aren’t those the lyrics?”  “Are you kidding me?!  Are you serious?!  It is NOT smoosh it, it’s Push it!”  I then proceeded to hand her divorce paperwork because this is just not something we can recover from.  I was so insulted.  Okay, okay, that’s not true but not knowing the appropriate lyrics to one of the best hip hop songs of all time is a serious and unforgivable crime. As the group became more well-known and popular, they were labeled sell-outs.  Like so many celebrities, because they were getting paid to do something they loved, they were labeled sell outs.  I definitely do not see them that way- if I could get paid to do something I loved,  I would do it as well and I’m not ashamed to say that.

In 1987, the group was in need of a DJ.  There was a woman who had been DJ’ing for the group by the name of Latoya Hanson, but she often missed practices so they were in need of someone new. Hurby Azor who was a classmate of Deirda Roper, knew that she was marketing herself as a DJ and asked her to audition for him to see if she would be a good fit for an all-female hip hop group.  Deirdra spent her senior year of high school on tour with Salt ‘N Pepa.  This was difficult for Deirdra because she would have to leave her mother behind who is diabetic.  

Knowing that this could be a once in a lifetime opportunity, she took a chance and toured.However, her commitment to being in the group was very symbolic as not only were there not very many female rappers at this time, there also weren’t many female DJs.  With Spinderella on board, the group continued working on their music.

A Salt with a Deadly Pepa was released in 1988 again on Next Plateau records.  This album would go on to be certified gold.  It would reach #8 on the Billboard Charts and includes songs such as:  Shake Your Thang, I Gotcha, Twist and Shout and the brilliantly titled song- Spinderella’s Not a Fella (but a girl DJ).  In 1989, S & P were nominated for a grammy in the rap category which was new.  The award presentation though was not televised so S & P along with many other notable rappers at the time, boycotted the awards show.

Black’s Magic was released in 1990, the group continued to stay on with their indie label.  This album sold over 1 million copies in the US.  It features some of their most well-known songs including Expression which was sort of an homage to Madonna’s Express Yourself, Doper than Dope and Let’s Talk about Sex.  The song Let’s Talk about Sex faced some controversy initially because people thought maybe it was just raunchy, but instead it was a song about respecting yourself and your intimate partner.  It was also a very appropriately timed release as the country was in the midst of the Aids Epidemic.  In case you don’t remember or perhaps if you were not born yet or were young when this all happened.  The AIDs epidemic was a huge medical issue in the United States beginning in the early 1980s and continuing into the 1990s.  By the end of the 1980s, there were over 100,000 AIDs cases in the United States alone and likely more than 400,000 worldwide.  By the early 1990s, there were millions of cases around the world.  When doctors learned how HIV and subsequently “Let’s Talk About Sex” was remixed into a song called “Let’s Talk About AIDs.”  There were many celebrities who didn’t use their platform respectively when it came to AIDs.  For example, Sebastian Bach who was the lead singer of Skid Row, was photographed wearing a shirt that said- “AIDs Kill Fags Dead” and Eddie Murphy had a bit in his standup shows in the early 1980s saying that he was petrified of AIDs and Homosexual men which led to protests.  Salt ‘N Pepa, used their platform to educate, advocate and to dispel rumors about AIDs which was incredibly respectful, well-informed and not necessarily the norm at the time.  It was released on the radio with the hopes of reaching a wide audience.  Here are some of their powerful lyrics:

Yo, let's talk about AIDS, go on

To the unconcerned and uninformed

You think you can't get it? Well, you're wrong

Don't dismiss or blacklist the topic that ain't gonna stop it

Now if you go about it right, you just might save your life

Don't be uptight, come join the fight

We're gonna tell you how you can get it and how you won't

All of the do's and all of the don't's

I got some news for you so listen, please

It's not a black, white or gay disease

Are you ready, pep? Yeah, I'm set

All right then, come on, bet

So if you do come up HIV positive, mmm, or have AIDS

Yeah, we just want you to know, What? That there are treatments

That's right, and the earlier, the sooner, detected the better off

You'll be, tell 'em please

Hey, yo, pep, you get checked?

Yep, every year, G

Now, you don't get AIDS from kisses, touches, mosquito bites

Or huggin', toilet seats, telephones, stop buggin'

Very Necessary was released in 1993, again with Plateau.   Salt, Pepa and Spinderella also helped produce the record.  There are more classics on this album including:  Shoop, Whata Man (which was a collaboration with En Vogue who was a very popular female R & B group in the 1990s), Heaven ‘N Hell and None of Your Business.  The group won their first grammy for the song “None of Your Business.”  The album peaked at #4 on the Billboard Charts and sold over 5 million copies in the US alone.  With this album we again have the opportunity to listen to the brilliance that is Salt ‘N Pepa lyrics.  Shoop for example has a few lines that everyone seemed to know at the time and that a lot of people I can know can recite on the spot:

Here I go, here I go, here I go again (again?)

Girls, what's my weakness? (Men!)

Ok then, chillin', chillin'

Mindin' my business (word)

Yo, Salt, I looked around, and I couldn't believe this

I swear, I stared, my niece my witness

The brother had it goin' on with somethin' kinda, uh

Wicked, wicked (ooh) had to kick it

I’m not shy so I asked for the digits

No one was having as much fun in the 90s it seemed as Salt ‘N Pepa.  And we were so lucky to have their music blasting on our radios, tape decks and boom boxes.  

The song “None of Your Business” features some of my all-time favorite Salt ‘N Pepa lyrics that I try and insert into conversation whenever possible because they are just too darn clever.

I appreciate the song because once again, Salt N Pepa are challenging the stereotypes that are all too often given to women.  Here are a few of those lines:

Opinions are like assholes and everybody’s got one (can I get that on a t-shirt?)and my own personal favorite:

So the moral of this story is, who are you to judge?

There's only one true judge, and that's God

So chill, and let my Father do His job

This can be a helpful comeback if someone is insulting you.  You know, so if someone says something like- “Amy, you like the movie “You’ve Got Mail”?  I hate that movie!  To that I say- “who are you to judge? there’s only one true judge and that’s God, so chill and let my father do his job.” 

It also features a few lines that my sister was notorious for repeating at any given moment:

1993, S and P, packin' and mackin'

Bamboozlin' and smackin' suckers with this track

Throw the beat back in

Brand New was released in 1997, again Salt ‘N Pepa co-produced this album.  It was released by Red Ant records, but they went bankrupt just before the album’s release so it sadly did not get very much promotion.  However, it still managed to sell 500,000 copies. This was the first time they were not making a record with Hurby Azor.  He and Cheryl aka Salt had broken up and there were some disputes around royalties.  

In between their studio albums, there have been a number of greatest hits and remix albums for Salt N’ Pepa in 1990, 1991, 1999, 2008 and so on and so forth.  

By the early 2000s, the unstoppable force that was Salt ‘N Pepa suddenly came to a stop.  In 2002 respectively, the group officially disbanded.  Cheryl was exhausted and had some medical issues that made her want to slow things down a bit.  She has said in interviews that during her impressive career, she sadly suffered from bulimia.  She has also said that dealing with Sandra aka Pepa is very intense.  She was hoping to release a solo album, but unfortunately never went on to do so.  Sandra went on to star in some reality TV shows and Spinderella would go on to be a radio DJ.  The group started working together, first in 2005 as they were given a Hip Hop Honors Award and by 2007, they had officially gotten back together.  They were all in a different place when the group got back together, each woman in the group had children.  

They would go on to star in a reality show called The Salt ‘N Pepa show, perform on a tour with Lisa-Lisa and SWV called the “Ladies of the 80s” tour, among many other tours and appearances. In 2019 the group parted ways with DJ Spinderella which has made headlines in the music industry.  It is unclear why she was dropped from the group, but a lawsuit was filed against Salt ‘N Pepa, it sounds like it has been settled.  Most recently, the group helped develop a biopic that was released on Lifetime in January of this year.  Salt ‘N Pepa executive produced the film and Queen Latifah was also involved in its production.  They have made a lot of television appearances recently to promote the film. Sadly, Spinderella was not involved in the development of the movie, but it sounds like she has a story to share as well which she will hopefully do when she is ready. Aside from her music career and difficulties with the other members of the group, Spinderella aka Deidra has become an advocate for diabetes awareness.  Her mother died as a result of complications from the disease and many of her family members are living with diabetes.  The 3 women who comprise this group have had a lasting impact on the world of music and I didn’t realize just how profound an impact that was until I revisited their contributions all of these years later.

I hope you have enjoyed the look back on the story of Salt ‘N Pepa, one of the most successful hip hop groups of all time, male or female.  To date, they have sold over 15 million records.  They’ve had 3, #1 hits, and 6 top 10 hits.  In addition to their grammy for “None of Your Business,” they’ve also won a number of MTV video awards for choreography and music videos as well as a BET Hip Hop Icon Award.  Not only did S & P pave the way for women in hip-hop music, we can also thank them for making rap music more accepted and mainstream at a time where many people assumed all rappers were just gangsters.  They blew all of those assumptions out of the water.  They are smart, creative, magnetic and are outstanding performers.  If you have a chance to look up some of their recent performances on YouTube, you can see that both women, who are now in their 50s, often perform live, they do not lip sync, and they also dance.  They still have that extra energy, that extra something, that performers half their age don’t have.  

If you are enjoying the Pop Culture Retrospective Podcast. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts. Spotify or whichever podcast platform you use.  Please also rate the show as it helps direct more listens to this joyous show that travels down memory lane. You can contact me anytime, my email address is:  popcultureretrospective@gmail.com or you can follow me on Twitter, I’m @popcultureretro.  I hope you will join me for my next show where we will be discussing the 1992 cult classic film, Wayne’s World.  Until then, be kind, be safe and hold on to your memories.