#118 - 25 Questions about retro video games, friendship, showbiz pizza, & more!

Below is an outline of the episode generated by Google since there was no formal transcript. 

Interview with Dan Loosen RE: Midwest Gaming Classic

Podcast featured Midwest Gaming Classic co-founder discussing the show's genesis via Atari Jaguar and community focus with social impact.

Pinball Interest and MGC Origin
The guest described their initial interest in pinball after observing skilled play at Summerfest, which led to a focus on gaming as a social connector. The Midwest Gaming Classic began with 4 friends' shared interest in the Atari Jaguar, evolving from a small 2001 JagFest to a large-scale convention.

Jaguar Failures and Market Crash
The Atari Jaguar community explored the system’s marketing failures, recognizing that processor and RAM were more important than the 64-bit claim. The 1983 video game crash was attributed to the flooding of the market with poor-quality, unlicensed games and a simultaneous lack of arcade industry innovation.

MGC Maker Fair and Social Focus
The Midwest Gaming Classic is designed as a maker fair and social trade show where both small and large creators share their work, exemplified by a 10-year-old presenting alongside WWE 2K24 developers. The show's success is attributed to the community and the personal, unique celebrity interactions that foster friendship among attendees.

Details

• Introduction to the Pop Culture Retrospective Podcast and Guest: Amy Lewis welcomed listeners back to the Pop Culture Retrospective Podcast and introduced Dan Loosen, one of the co-founders of the Midwest Gaming Classic Trade Show in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The Midwest Gaming Classic features a wide variety of games, including pinball, arcade video games, home consoles, computers, tabletop games, and trading card games.
• Dan Loosen's Introduction and Pinball Origin Story: Dan Loosen, who is from the Milwaukee area, joined the show and discussed his background, noting they were always interested in tech and theme parks. They shared a story about how their interest in pinball began in the 1990s at Summerfest when they watched someone play Jurassic Park pinball and learned that skilled playing could lead to winning free games, which made pinball their game of choice.
• Gaming as a Social Connector and Midwest Gaming Classic Genesis: Dan Loosen explained that games became a way for them to develop good relationships with people, as walking up to a game in an arcade meant being instantly friends with anyone else playing, regardless of their background. The genesis of the Midwest Gaming Classic (MGC) began with Dan Loosen's interest in the Atari Jaguar, which led them and three friends to connect with an online community and attend a show in 1999.
• Hosting the First JagFest and MGC Growth: In 2001, Dan Loosen and their co-founders hosted the successful JagFest in Milwaukee, which attracted over 100 people, including international attendees. The founding ethos of the show remains centered on welcoming anyone who wants to share their collection or interest, leading to the inclusion of diverse activities like speed puzzling. The show has grown significantly from 100 people in a basement to 36,000 attendees occupying 350,000 square feet.
• The Atari Jaguar Community and its Failures: The online Atari Jaguar community focused on exploring the system's failures, which allowed them to access fascinating prototype materials and historical records from companies. For example, the company shipped the original VR headsets used at a Chicago trade show to members of the community. Dan Loosen noted that the biggest problem the Jaguar faced was its marketing as a 64-bit console that was theoretically four times better than competitors, which was inaccurate because processor and RAM were the true determinants of power.
• MGC as a Maker Fair for Gaming: Dan Loosen refers to MGC as more of a maker fair for gaming because it welcomes both huge companies and the smallest individuals, such as a 10-year-old presenting a game they made alongside the makers of *WWE 2K24*. The show's unique environment allows both established developers and emerging creators to participate and share their work.
• Atari's Pre-Jaguar Console Name: During the question and answer segment, Amy Lewis asked about the console name Atari was slated to release before the Jaguar. Dan Loosen correctly identified the name as the Panther, which was the planned 32-bit version that Atari decided to halt to focus on the Jaguar.
• The Trend of Console Naming Conventions: Dan Loosen noted that many game companies were using different themes for their console names at the time, with Atari adopting a cat theme. Sega, for example, used celestial bodies, discussing Saturn, Neptune, and Pluto.
• The Early Online Community and Relationships: Dan Loosen discussed how the small, text-based message board community centered around the Atari Jaguar created strong, lasting bonds that felt like an actual family. They mentioned still recognizing members by their names and screen names, which for Dan Loosen remains "Goat Dan" in reference to their company, Goat Store, which sells various games.
• Factors Contributing to the 1983 Video Game Crash: Dan Loosen provided an in-depth explanation of the 1983 video game crash, stating that the public factor often cited—terrible games like *E.T.* and *Pac-Man*—was only a partial truth. The larger contributing factor was the flooding of the market with unlicensed, often poor-quality games made by numerous companies after Activision set the precedent by leaving Atari.
• Market Saturation and Lack of Arcade Innovation in 1983: The proliferation of cheap, low-quality games saturated the market, making it difficult for stores to sell them, as many games were purchased by parents for younger kids. Simultaneously, the arcade industry lacked innovation, and home consoles had essentially matched the capabilities of arcades, reducing the incentive for people to go out to play.
• Gaming as a Social Space and the Value of Nostalgia: Dan Loosen noted that arcades thrive when they lean into being a social space, emphasizing that nostalgia often stems from activities that brought people together rather than tearing them apart. Games serve as an instant common ground, facilitating social bonding and shared experiences.
• Logistics and Planning for Midwest Gaming Classic: Planning for the MGC begins more than a year in advance, with some components already scheduled through 2027, as securing a 350,000 square foot venue requires a multi-year horizon. The physical setup of the convention takes place over a roughly 36-hour period starting on Thursday, requiring the help of approximately 1,200 people to be ready for Friday preview night.
• The Unique Operational Model of MGC: MGC operates differently from standard trade shows by relying on individual collectors to bring and present their own games, rather than hiring groups to shlep games. For instance, instead of hiring one group to bring 100 arcade games, MGC has 100 collectors each bring one game to share, making the show more personal and interesting.
• MGC as a Social Trade Show Focused on Connections: Dan Loosen's business partner refers to MGC as more of a social trade show than a gaming one because it maintains the heart of the original online community meeting up in real life, with gaming being the shared excuse to gather. This model allows the show to feature niche items, such as a 16-player *Baseball* Game Boy linkup, that would not make sense at a standard convention.
• The Evolving Perception of Gamers: Dan Loosen noted that when the show started, gamers were often stereotyped as "nerds," but over time, people have realized that gaming involves all different types of people from all walks of life. The shared experience of playing games allows people to connect on an equal level, regardless of their social or economic standing.
• Marriages and Proposals at the Convention: Dan Loosen confirmed that the MGC has been the location for both proposals and a wedding ceremony, often kept low-key at the couple's request. They also shared a story about a successful entrepreneur who started their business after finding community and purpose through the programming resources at the show, highlighting the show's transformative impact.
• Most Requested Attractions and Pinball Resurgence: Attendees at MGC are less focused on specific popular games like *Mario* or *Sonic* and more interested in the unique exhibits, such as the museum or the "wacky" setups in the G2B room featuring games like *Steel Battalion*. Dan Loosen noted that new pinball machines are always highly requested, with companies like Stern Pinball and Spooky Pinball bringing new releases, such as *Pokémon Pinball* and *Beetlejuice* themed machines.
• The Odysseys Console and Ralph Baer: Amy Lewis asked about the company responsible for the first commercial home video game console, the Odyssey. Dan Loosen correctly identified Magnavox as the company and mentioned that Ralph Baer was the creator, adding that Baer's original prototype is often featured at their museum.
• The Origin of the Cheese Head Hat (Trivia): Amy Lewis asked Dan Loosen about the origin of the Wisconsin "Cheese Head" hat, which they did not know due to their preference for basketball over football and being lactose intolerant. Amy Lewis shared the trivia that the hat originated at a Brewers game when a fan wore a homemade hat made by burning holes in and painting a couch cushion.
• Number of Gamers in the United States (Trivia): When asked to estimate the number of gamers in the United States in 2024, Dan Loosen correctly guessed 200 million and provided the insight that this is likely an undercount because many people who play games, such as board games or casual activities, do not identify themselves as "gamers".
• Hypothetical Game Suggestions for an Alien Life Form: Dan Loosen provided a five-game list to give an alien life form a comprehensive overview of the video gaming experience. The suggestions included an 80s arcade game like *Q*bert, the 8-bit platformer *Mario 3*, the powerful narrative role-playing game *Earthbound*, the 3D storytelling game *God of War* (2018), and a modern pinball machine, such as the *Pokémon Pinball*, as pinball and roller coasters are two very human concepts difficult to explain.
• DIY and Homebrew Gaming at MGC: Dan Loosen explained that the MGC highlights do-it-yourself (DIY) and homebrew games, specifically pinball and "indie arcades". People use new tools to program and build their own games, sometimes leading to opportunities, such as one designer being hired by Stern Pinball. Indie arcade games, like the commercially picked-up *Perfect Pour*, allow creators to bring new ideas to an industry where new commercial games are expensive.
• The Future Classics Area: The show features a "Future Classics" area where game developers of all sizes, from students and hobbyists to support developers who worked on games like *WWE 2K24*, are invited to showcase their projects. Dan Loosen emphasized the high value of MGC's Sunday ticket, which allows attendees to play all day and have a great experience without spending any additional money in the vendor hall.
• Discussion of Unique Guest Experiences: Amy Lewis and Dan Loosen discussed the appeal of hands-on activities and meaningful human interaction at shows, contrasting it with standard celebrity appearances that may not justify the cost after the initial interest. Dan Loosen explained that their events feature guests who sign autographs for a limited time (about two hours) and are then given time to explore the show and engage in creative activities, leading to unique interactions such as a guest playing a game with an attendee. They agreed that these personal, unique interactions are more memorable than standard setups with tables and ring lights.
• The Ghostbusters Pinball Machine Story: Dan Loosen shared a personal anecdote involving the release of the Ghostbusters Pinball machine, noting that Stern Pinball offered to sell them one, which they initially declined due to buying a house. Instead of purchasing the machine, they were given the contact information for Ernie Hudson, who later attended the show in 2019, which required a few years to coordinate their schedules. The event led to a lasting connection, as Dan Loosen still exchanges texts with Ernie Hudson, which makes the signed back glass of their now-owned pinball machine personally significant.
• Value of Unique Celebrity Interactions: They discussed how the show setup allows attendees to have unexpected, random interactions, such as potentially running into Ernie Hudson walking around the venue. Dan Loosen noted that getting an item signed can serve as a non-imposing way for attendees to say "thank you" and interact with a celebrity, while the show's unique environment enhances the experience. Amy Lewis observed that the show successfully achieves "the best of both worlds" in its setup.
• Humility and Show's Community Foundation: Amy Lewis complimented Dan Loosen for remaining humble despite the show's success. Dan Loosen affirmed that the show's existence is not due to their individual efforts, but rather the community that intervened when they attempted to shut down the show in 2005. They stressed that the show’s success relies on contributions from others, such as Stern Pinball, museum groups, and people bringing tabletop games, emphasizing that others are "more important" to the show's success than themself.
• Milwaukee Area Recommendations: Amy Lewis requested recommendations for activities near the convention center in Milwaukee outside of the Midwest Gaming Classic (MGC) hours. Dan Loosen recommended the official MGC afterparty on Saturday night and the Market Hall, which hosts around 15 independent, indoor food vendors near the convention center. They also suggested visiting the Milwaukee Public Museum, particularly the older exhibits like the "Streets of Old Milwaukee" area and the dinosaur display, as those unique features will not be moved to the new location.
• Discussion of Bobblehead Hall of Fame and Chuck E. Cheese: Amy Lewis shared their recent enjoyment of the Bobblehead Hall of Fame, which is located near the MGC convention center. Dan Loosen mentioned receiving the Chuck E. Cheese make-believe band bobbleheads for Christmas, which led to a brief discussion about the potential for a future podcast conversation about ShowBiz Pizza Place, as Dan Loosen had previously worked at Chuck E. Cheese. Dan Loosen also noted that the group Rocket Fire Explosion had filmed a commercial for the MGC a number of years ago.
• Goals for Attendees and the Theme of Unity: When asked what they hope attendees take away from the MGC, Dan Loosen stated the goal is "friendship" and the feeling of being part of something positive that is bigger than them. Dan Loosen explained that the show promotes the ability for people of different political viewpoints to play games together and engage in respectful conversations, referencing their own experience with a Magic: The Gathering play group. They concluded that the ultimate goal is for attendees to remember that "peoples are peoples," which is a quote from *The Great Muppet Caper*.
• Logistical Details for the Midwest Gaming Classic: The best way to find information about the MGC is through their website, midwestgamingclassic.com. The event runs from April 24th through the 26th at the Baird Center in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Friday night is a preview night with limited tickets, running from 6:00 PM until midnight, with the vendor hall closed, designed to allow closer interaction with people behind the displays. Saturday's show runs from 10:00 AM until 8:00 PM, and Sunday's is from 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM, with free admission for children nine and under.
• Saturday Night Afterparty and Unique Challenges: The Saturday night afterparty, which is rated M for mature, runs from 9:00 PM until 1:30 AM and includes different music, wacky games, and celebrity game challenges. Examples of past challenges include playing the game *Crackpots* against the designer, Dan Kitchen, using only a foot controller, or playing pinball facing away from the machine. Dan Loosen stated that the afterparty has become a favorite event for many because it is more individualized and has fewer people.